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 jfoxtail posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 9:48 am
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Hi:
I see many of the contributors playing MERP curb the magic. I did/do as well but I find it really impacts game balance. Without a Mage and a sleep spell - or a +15 magical sword - the average 1st level group of players have a high mortality rate. A group of Orcs with a lucky critical (or 2) can waste a party of decent warriors/scouts.
One way I beefed up the PC's was to change the rule on stats. Instead of replacing the primary stat with a 90 - I allowed them a 95 - which generates an extra +5% bonus on most OBs. Add a background option - your up to 97 !
I also allowed PCs to re roll stats below 40 - which means many of the PCs are loaded at stats 75+ accross the board.
Net result is "ubermen" by 5th level. I seriously had to work a retiring Players by 10th level.
Any other thoughts? |
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| shnar posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 3:28 pm
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Most mages at 1st level can't do crap with a group of orcs anyways, which is one reason I hate seeing magic users in the party. That doesn't mean remove magic *items*, just no magic users.
Typically, I've been *very* generous with my chargens, allowing my characters to roll THREE d10's and pick the two they want, and even then following the 20 or less rule (i.e. if they choose 04 as their number, instead of 40, they can reroll it).
And yes, that does tend to lead towards ubermen around 5th level (my 7th lvl fighter took out a Balrog one-on-one in a mock-fight), but I'm not too concerned since the campaigns typically dwindle away around that time. A year later, we pick up a new campaign with fresh characters, etc.
My philosophy has been that PCs are supposed to be the special ones, so they deserve a slight edge on the rest of the world.
-shnar |
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| lann posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 10:29 am
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Hello,
I hate to disagree with Shnar (as he's quiet a decent chap) but I rekon if your 7th level fighter can take a Balrog then there is something very seriously wrong with the game balance. Also, campaigns and characters in my worlds get better with time, not worse (or dwindle as you put it).
I don't really see that much of a problem with the RM magic system that can't be tinkered with to suit ME. I use an in-house corruption system which tends to keep a lid on most magic, and magical items I'm just really stingy with (as one would expect in ME).
I use RM2 and have never had any problems with PC's not being powerful enough and to me if you've got a weak character then I guess that's just tough - get over it. Roleplaying is about so much more than stats - although they do play their part.
Magic users are always going to weak at the lower levels - that's just the way of the world. A point you should note however is that in Middle-earth none of the truly great powers are warriors.
Just my penny's worth. |
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| j-foxtail posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 8:36 am
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I like what both of you have to say.
I emailed a submission to the Merp.com website - I hope the webmaster will post some of my own "house rules" for MERP magic.
I would like to encourage you guys to do the same. There are so many hints (on the web discussion boards) of really good house rules in RMS and Merp - I would love to be able to see a bunch of them in one site - and be able to pick an choose a couple that would improve my game.
I agree Roleplaying is about more than stats as well. I just find in Merp (I cant same the same for rolemaster - I never played it) that a significant portion of time is spent in PC generation. The players become numbed to the game if there is an early high mortality rate. Loose interest - drop out - no attachment to the campaign.
The balance I try (trying) to achieve as a GM is to nuture them thru 1/2/3 into stonger levels. The PC's become formidable at 4/5/6 and heroic at 7/8/9. I can always ratchet up the level of challenges (NPC's etc) but that in itself is not the complete answer. Magic and items at higher level can make them "epic" powerful and the campaign can loose its moxy if they PCs must always be fighting a re-gaurd action around Sauronic assassination attempts.
Iann - I disagree that all the great powers are not warriors. By middle 3rd age (at the fall of Angmar) all the great powers are warriors - there is very little magic left. Earner and the great kings of Gondor are warriors. The ruling stewards, Eorl the young, the Rangers are essentially warriors, the war of Dwarves and Orcs is "non magical" - Bard the bowman - Helm, Frecca. All down the line. The last great magic powers are Elvish, reclusive and hidden - not ideal for Player Characters. |
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| lann posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 10:09 am
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Hi Foxtail,
Nah sorry mate, I can't go with you on this one. Whilst the sword may solve many answers the list you have given there is hardly definitive and not really all that impressive - with the obvious exception of Elendils line.
I wasn't saying that there are no powerful warriors just that IMO all the real movers and shakers are magic users or have innate magic ability.
Also we are both really talking about different things here. The magic system you use limits severly the abilities of magic users (as in they are limited in how powerful they are because theres only 10 spells per list). RM2 has potentially a much more devastating system for Magic users (should they risk the corruption & the chance for Magical detection) which means they can easily compete with warriors at a higher level.
Why not try using either Spell Law with MERP or perhaps even the magic system type thing from Decipher - although I haven't seen any conversion rules anywhere.
Lann |
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| shnar posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 11:50 am
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oh, that's very nice of you to say Lann. Of course our campaigns were unbalanced, that's what made it so fun! ;) But in all seriousness, even when I was playing steadily (high school and college), campaigns rarely went more than a few months, and thus a few levels deep. The groups I was in would get bored with ME and move on to Champions or Spacemaster or something.
Our problems with magic was that new players felt it unfair to have to wait 3 rounds to get one attack in, and even then have a major chance of failing (since they'd be only first lvl and have to do an ESF). So, tired of new players not understanding magic, we just simply downplayed the whole thing and stuck to swords. Made combat a *lot* easier.
I do like the concept of a corruption, or better yet, perception with magic. I love how Gandalf is always drained after heavy magic use. I use the RM3 optional exhaustion rules with magic (a mod. on activities depending on percent of PPs used). I should also introduce a evil-draw-rule, where if you use magic, evil is drawn towards you.
-shnar |
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