The Blue Wizards

[dutch206]

If you remember the history correctly, there were five wizards who came to Arda:  Curunir, Mithrandir, Rhadagast, Alatar, and Pallando.  A &P were known as the 'blue wizards'. The only thing I remeber hearing about them was that they went into the eastern lands and were never heard from again.

What happened to them?  Does anyone know?

[joeman]

I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for; there is no information in the primary or secondary material from Tolkien on 'Allatar' or 'Pallando.'  If you're looking for information from the MERP material, though, there is slightly more information available than "nothing."

[Turambar]

There are two snippets of information regarding the Blue Wizards in Tolkien's works.

1. Unfinished Tales states thier names as Alatar and Pallando and mentions they go East but don't return. Mentions that they probably failed like Saruman, but in different ways...possibly founding 'magic' cults in the East.

2. In Peoples of ME, I believe (somewhere in HoME  ), the Blue Wizards are given alternate names (don't remember exactly offhand, but they meant 'East-helper' and 'Darkslayer' I believe) and it is implied that they may have been successful in battling Sauron, if not the Easterlings would have vastly outnumbered the peoples of the West and been victorous. It is also mentioned that the Blue Wizards may have came to ME in the mid-2nd Age with Glorfindel instead of ~1000 3rd Age with the rest of the Istari. This doesn't really fit as well to me, however.

In MERP details are very thin...what can be gleaned is that Alatar, I believe, sets himself up as a power in the NE of ME (not aligned with Sauron, but not exactly against either...an independent power) and that Pallando starts some death cults in the SE or South of ME.

Jason

[joeman]

Precisely right, and this gets into the whole "which version" discussion that UT and HoMe bring up (which is why I don't consider them "secondary sources" any longer, but sort of "tertiary").

1.  The details of the "other Istari" exist only in that snippet in UT, which was apparently plucked from a version of a story the rest of which was completely unused elsewhere (except in some HoMe variants for reasons of studying the development of the broader mythos).

2.  Tolkien himself had several variations on "when" the Istari arrived (outlined in HoMe), and those sources are never really seriously considered definitive since they are contradictory (though it's entirely possible that I've missed the "latest" on the subject and am therefore behind the times).

I have, myself, become exceedingly frustrated with being able to utilize things like UT and HoMe for much other than my own deep curiosity as to how Tolkien's work came to be, how the man worked, and linguistic work.  At least in any "purist" sense.

Of course, I'm also more and more inclined to separate things into two bins: "purist" and "fun stuff."  I fight this urge, because in the end, I think it's a bad place for my M-e gaming experience to go.

[Turambar]

About the only thing I take from the HoME entries concerning the Blue Wizards are the additional names. My understanding is that what is mostly being presented are conversations between CT and his Dad towards the end of JRRT's life and that little of it is 'documented'.

To me it makes the most sense that they were sent over together after Sauron begins to take form in the 3rd Age. Everything seems to fit together tidiest that way. If anyone were to build a campaign in the East, I believe it would be fair game to present them in either the Gandalf or Saruman mold...or even one of each . There just isn't anything presented that would restrict the GM's imagination.

Jason

[Scorba]

I would think that either Pallando or Alatar would be good NPCs to start a MERP adventure around in the east...or their ominous return to the west.

we have spoken about expanding our MERP world into the eastern lands to try and find the waywards wizards. the possibilities could be endless....new races, new foes and who knows...another evil wizard to contend with?

they were only unfinished dreams....but nice thoughts of interjecting new life into a MERP camapign.

Scorba